Wednesday, April 14, 2010

Why do people believe in Jesus when there is so much evidence against him???????????????????????????...

If Jesus actually existed and did all the miraculous things he is said to have done then surely many people would have written about it during and immediately following Jesus' life. Writing was common at the time, yet an extensive search by many scholars over centuries has turned up nothing. The very few references to Jesus that allegedly date back to his lifetime are clearly forgeries, forged no doubt hundreds of years later by people who realized this embarrassing lack of evidence needed to be rectified (see Joseph Wheless Forgery in Christianity).





Even if we ignore the evidence that they are forgeries, the very small number of these questionably authentic writings that allegedly date back to his alleged lifetime are still far too few. There should be a huge wealth of writing about this person that was written during his lifetime.





Jesus allegedly had crowds of thousands follow him around. Once he fed 5000 people with only a few loaves of bread and a couple of fish (Mark 6:39-44). Later he repeated the miracle again feeding a crowd of 4000 people (Mark 8:1-9). Jesus cured sick people miraculously and raised people from the dead. He changed water into wine at a wedding reception. He exorcised demons. He commanded 2000 pigs to rush into a lake and drown themselves, inciting the people of the nearby town and countryside, who asked him to leave. (No mention is made of what happened to the poor pig hearder whose livelihood must have been ruined. Mark 5:1-20).





Wherever Jesus went a crowd gathered and wondered in amazement who this person was. Jesus was a very controversial person. Finally he got himself into so much trouble that huge crowds of Jews demanded his execution. There was a controversial trial followed by his public execution. Three days later he is seen walking around alive again. And no one wrote any of this down when it allegedly happened?





Even the earliest full account of Jesus in the Bible, the Gospel of Mark, is admitted by the Catholic Church to date to at least A.D. 70, a full 40 years after Jesus' alleged death and resurrection. (Mark makes reference to an event that happened around A.D. 70, so it could not have been written any earlier. Modern scholars now date the Gospels as being written near A.D. 170, a full 140 years after the alleged event, since no one makes any reference to a Gospel of Mark, or any other Gospel, prior to this time.)





It's inconceivable that no one at the time bothered to write down anything about the most important person in the whole of human history. Writing was common back then. People wrote letters. Historians wrote commentaries on current events. The Romans wrote and kept legal documents about trials. It's considered one of the best documented periods of history. Yet no one wrote anything about this Jesus; no one painted a portrait of this Jesus; no one drew a sketch of this Jesus; no one cast a coin depicting this Jesus; no one made a statue of this Jesus; no one makes any reference whatsoever to this Jesus. The historical evidence is overwhelming—the Jesus of the Bible never existed.

Why do people believe in Jesus when there is so much evidence against him???????????????????????????...
Much of the New Testament was written within 25 to 40 years after Jesus death.
Reply:You people are not religious and i love Jesus! He is the only one who will save y'all from your sins! If you are too scared to realiz it then fine, but NEVER criticize what you do not know! Please, I am very passionate about my beliefs and i dont appreciate you answers. Report It

Reply:Ummm probably because their is so much more evidence for him. Do don't go off feeding 5000 people without someone remembering your name
Reply:You need to look at the Bible as a historical work. In which case all 40 writers point to Jesus or allude to Him.


Josephus Flavius (Jewish historians also wrote about Jesus, though just in passing. )





3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;


4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:


5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:


6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.


7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.


8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
Reply:do you see the air NO but you know it is there Do you see electricity NO but you know it is there when you turn on the switch or stick metal in a plug end what makes you think Jeasus and God is not there They are EVERYWHERE Beleive and have faith it will do wonders for you
Reply:we believe in Jesus, because he said he is the only way, and he also said that there will be many people who will deny him, and those types of people are controlled by satan, if you already didnt know this earth belongs to the devil, and he will do everything and anything to make people stop believing that there was a Jesus so at the end of times when satan is killed by God all of satans followers ( all these people who deny jesus) will not be able to go to heaven unless they accept him before these things happen.
Reply:This is only spectulations as all that they write or say about Jesus. Jesus is the only one whom we can trust in and the only one that can lead us in the truth, in which he will set us free from all bondages.
Reply:"The very few references to Jesus that allegedly date back to his lifetime are clearly forgeries, forged no doubt hundreds of years later by people who realized this embarrassing lack of evidence needed to be rectified"





That is absolute rubbish.Theey are not forgeries,and it is impossible to discount Jospehus and the others unless one is deliberately ignoring the evidence because of an agenda.If you want to say that Josephus' views on Jesus and his other writings were forgeries,then you will have to discount the other subjects he wrote about,and that means losing an extremely valuable resource of history.


What historical figure is going to be denied next? Several of the Pharoahs don't have much written about them and their famous exploits (such as wars and hostile take overs) but no one denies that they existed.





"Even if we ignore the evidence that they are forgeries, the very small number of these questionably authentic writings that allegedly date back to his alleged lifetime are still far too few. There should be a huge wealth of writing about this person that was written during his lifetime."





They are not forgeries.Jesus mythers are the ones ignoring the evidence.


I wasn't aware that there was a set number of attributions needed before something was considered a historical figure.





"Jesus allegedly had crowds of thousands follow him around. Once he fed 5000 people with only a few loaves of bread and a couple of fish (Mark 6:39-44). Later he repeated the miracle again feeding a crowd of 4000 people (Mark 8:1-9). Jesus cured sick people miraculously and raised people from the dead. He changed water into wine at a wedding reception. He exorcised demons. He commanded 2000 pigs to rush into a lake and drown themselves, inciting the people of the nearby town and countryside, who asked him to leave. (No mention is made of what happened to the poor pig hearder whose livelihood must have been ruined. Mark 5:1-20)."





Your point is?





"And no one wrote any of this down when it allegedly happened? "





Yes,that's why we have records of this happening by different authors in the Bible.





"Even the earliest full account of Jesus in the Bible, the Gospel of Mark, is admitted by the Catholic Church to date to at least A.D. 70, a full 40 years after Jesus' alleged death and resurrection. (Mark makes reference to an event that happened around A.D. 70, so it could not have been written any earlier. Modern scholars now date the Gospels as being written near A.D. 170, a full 140 years after the alleged event, since no one makes any reference to a Gospel of Mark, or any other Gospel, prior to this time."





Oh really?Show me evidence of this.The Gospel of Mark dates back to long before 170 AD.See here:


http://www.abu.nb.ca/courses/NTIntro/Mar...


which dates the Gospel to about 40 AD.


The most trustworthy source on Alexander the Great was written in the second century AD,hundres of years after he lived.





"It's inconceivable that no one at the time bothered to write down anything about the most important person in the whole of human history. Writing was common back then. People wrote letters"





Yes,hence the Gospels and other attributions by non-Christian writers.





"Yet no one wrote anything about this Jesus"





You have got to be kidding me.





"no one painted a portrait of this Jesus"





So what? If I don't have a portrait painted of me,does that mean that I never existed? Not to mention that painting a picture of a figure wasn't very common amon devout Jews of that time-there was a commandment against making graven images.





"no one drew a sketch of this Jesus"





See above.





"no one cast a coin depicting this Jesus"





By that logic,the billions of people in this world today whoa ren't well known enough to be on a coin don't exist.That means you don't exist,and that means I don't exist.





"no one made a statue of this Jesus"





Refer to graven images.





"no one makes any reference whatsoever to this Jesus. "





Why are you ignoring the facts once again?





"The historical evidence is overwhelming—the Jesus of the Bible never existed."





Actually,the historical evidence is overwhelming-the Jesus of the Bible existed.





Please stop ignoring the evidence and scholarly consensus.
Reply:You must remember, Christians were not popular after Jesus' death. In fact, almost everyone during that time who believed or spread the belief of Jesus' and his death and ressurection was either stoned, or put in with the lions, or killed. You must agree, any written record of any such thing that went against the Roman government or belief of the Roman gods was probobly burned. There were probobly VERY few written records that survived. Hence, the ones we have today.
Reply:Because we walk by Faith not by sight and yeah i know what's coming " that's not enough evidence", well it is for me dude. You don't have to believe but let us believers just stay faithful to Christ while you guys just sit there busting your heads trying to think of every way to discourage us.
Reply:nice copy-n-paste job, attention seeker!!!
Reply:In your last sentence, you stated, "The historical evidence is overwhelming--the Jesus of the Bible never existed." I believe that is an opinion. Many people profess the Christian faith to be theirs, and they simply believe in Jesus Christ through strong faith and the Bible.





Speaking of the Bible, many people, probably with a mindset like yours, think that the Bible is just a bunch of stories made up by great professors and teachers. And that's partially right. Except for the part about it being made up. The Bible is real, and if you choose not to believe it, then that's your descision.





In your second paragraph, you also stated that these are forgeries. Historians say that, right? If they think that, and you as well, where is the other place that we can get these stories about Jesus?





In Paragraph 4, you said that many Jews wondered who this miraculous person was. If you really read the Bible and understand it, you'll know that these things that Jesus did were not troublemaking doings, but healings and removing of demons. For some reason, the Jews felt that this was some kind of socerer, which was why he could heal all these people. Therefore, they put him to death. Your last sentence says that no one wrote this down. Where did you get this story from if "no one 'allegley' wrote it down?"





To conlcude myself, I also noted that in your last paragraph, you said that its "unconcieveable that no one at the time bothered to write down anything about the most important person in the whole of human history." By the way, whatever happened to, "Jesus Christ never existed?" You went from "non-existent" to "important person in whole of human history." And you don't know that people didn't make coins or drew pictures for Jesus doesn't mean he doesn't exist. What if archeologists haven't found these things yet? And written work. Once again, your stupidity has mangled your thinking. The Bible. I have made my point. Email me if you have any more questions: iluv_19990@yahoo.com
Reply:To put one word on what you say: Speculation
Reply:You need to cite your reference when you blatantly plagiarize...
Reply:There is plenty of writings about Jesus, the whole new tesament of the Bible is about Him.
Reply:Duh??? Look at your calender.What does A.D. stand for??
Reply:my friend your wrong Jesus existed then and he existe now since your love to listen to the world view about him I suggest you look at the history channel , go to you public library find what your looking for, when they speak of Christ or religion its self, the fled to let one now its Satan whom rule this world and he confuse many to trap them, but i strongly suggest you really study research the bible itself, have an open mind look, listen and read.
Reply:Do you have an original thought or a real questioon.





You plagaraized is entire diatribe from a website.
Reply:People believe in the christian faith out of the fear that the religious leaders instill in them as children. If there god was so loving and forgiving then he wouldnt have to have poeple scared into believing. People have to have something to believe in and are afraid of controlling their own lives and beliefs and the christian faith has that extra something that provides a controlling figure. It provides an easy way to answers and takes out all mysteries that are a natural part of the earth and life.


The things that Jesus was supposidly able to do is common practice amongst many pagans and natural healers. The walking on water and levitations are still practiced by many today and can easily be achieved by practice, training and meditation. The laying of hands on the sick and healing is very close if not exactly like reiki or energy healing. This has been practiced for thousands of years.


People dont know how to use common sense when it comes to things like this and they are afraid to go against their family's beliefs and traditions. However if they were to study their history they would find that most of the modern christian beliefs are ancient paganistic beliefs and traditions only modified to go along with the so called "truth", the bible.
Reply:why do people deny the existence of buddha or zeus? why are there records of jesus-like figures in egyptian hieroglyphics thousands of years before he existed? there is no real proof either way. and frankly it is possible he was a real man whose story just got embellished obver the years and its possible he existed long before the chritsian jesus did and was adopted by other religions.
Reply:I do not know, but it is because they dont question they dont ask they dont say... wait just a damn minute there and tell me the whole story.


they blindly follow, and at the same time are totally convinced they are totally correct. retarded





But at least ther are some sane people left, who dont have imaginary friends that they ask for things and expect it to happen. has any prayer ever been answered ever by jesus... i think not. Jesus is a scare tactic to control the populous. As Agustus himself put it ......Christianity is the opium of the people.


and the worst part is they are the ones in charge of the worlds banks, economies, governments, trade, etc etc
Reply:You are quite dumb, historians have written about him, even apostles in letters and such, its called a Roman Census, it was taken at the time of Jesus's birth by Augustus Caesar.
Reply:John 6:47 Verily, I SAY Unto You, He That believeth on Me hath everlasting Life.! %26gt;%26gt;.%26gt; "HE that believeth on the Son has everlasting Life: He that believeth " NOT the SON" shall not see Life; BUT The Wrath Of GOD abideth on Him ! John 3;36 WHAT in HELL do you want?? It would be life changing and future happiness, if you realize there is nothing in Hell You Want!! Everything you really want is in Heaven! However.....Let's look at what you Believe.... If You choose not to believe in Jesus.. and a real Hell or Heaven, then You Have nothing to be concerned about until You Die. THEN, Of course--------It's too Late to change Directions and no matter your concern or belief, it's eternity in HELL with the Devil and His Imps, forever burning in torment. GOD SAYS: It's A " FOOL" who says there is no GOD!-------------Jesus said unto Thomas, because you have SEEN ME, You believe: BLESSED, are they that have NOT SEEN, And Yet Have Believed! They Shall Enter Heaven. JESUS IS OUR SAVIOR, IF YOU BELIEVE. IT IS YOUR CHOICE.
Reply:It wasn't the Jews that killed him, because he's born in Bethlehem, making him a Jew. But Romans killed him.
Reply:My faith and opinion strongly counters your statement. Evidence of Jesus Christ and His works are overwhelmingly in His favor. The world could not hold all the books of Jesus had he written them, for His word was beyond the magnitude of His mission.





But of course, you are free to believe as you will. The underlining truth in your question is the abundance of question marks.
Reply:Flavius Josephus the historian was a contemporary alive at the time of Christ and he wrote of Him





In Rome, in the year 93, Josephus published his lengthy history of the Jews. While discussing the period in which the Jews of Judaea were governed by the Roman procurator Pontius Pilate, Josephus included the following account:








About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was one who performed surprising deeds and was a teacher of such people as accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. And when, upon the accusation of the principal men among us, Pilate had condemned him to a cross, those who had first come to love him did not cease. He appeared to them spending a third day restored to life, for the prophets of God had foretold these things and a thousand other marvels about him. And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not disappeared.


- Jewish Antiquities, 18.3.3 §63





There is more historical record of Jesus than Julius Caesar,


And by the way what year is it?


2007? 2007 of what?


You can deny His historical existence, yet even you keep time by the fact it is 2007 years after Christ was born.





Biblical archaeology is a discipline in its own right, because there are numerous archeological evidences of people, places and things the bible speaks of.





For someone who is an unbeliever it seems as though you have put a lot of effort into studying what you don't believe.


Strange.





I know He lives because of the relationship I have with Him,


Not because there is an empty tomb in Israel.





Jesus is God, He loves even those that hate Him, and it is only by His payment for our sin can we have a relationship with God.





Truth is a Person, Jesus Christ, and He loves you whether or not you acknowledge it.


Perhaps that is why you protest so stridently against Him....
Reply:They have....... wait for it....... FAITH! Shocker!





*Edit* Oh wow. Thanks for posting that clip Joshua.
Reply:Very interesting, but there is another reason why there are no other records. But this argument is one that I doubt that any skeptic of Christianity would consider, because it shoots your theory right down the drain. I





The "paper" that was used in that day and age did not last very long. The odds of any manuscripts being able to be preserved for 2000 years are miniscule. The fact that the Bible was copied should tell you the significance of that book, versus the other manuscripts of that day that disintegrated with age. While the Dead Sea Scrolls were salvaged, it was because they were hidden in special containers for many years in a cave and it's highly unusual that those records were able to be preserved. Those manuscripts were preserved and cannot be regularly accessed because they will crumble if exposed to the elements. That's why so many scholars were necessary in those day and ages to preserve the manuscripts by copying the manuscripts.





Religious scholars would not have been interested in saving all birth and death records, so I don't buy the idea that just because there are no Roman Records from that time still saved today means that Jesus didn't exist. It simply means that the records if written in any other manuscripts would most likely have disintegrated.





If you need a source, check out the preservation methods of the paper during that time period. Most lasted about 75-100 years at the most.
Reply:I take it you have never read the book; A Case for Christ.
Reply:Christ came to heal the sick and broken hearted. You sound like you're well and don't need Him, so don't worry about us who do.
Reply:Beautifully well said. The reason is that they're in denial. Jesus didn't actually exist but many people on this planet are too weak to conceive of it.
Reply:Now I believe in God 100%. If you don't believe in him, This is you

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